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Posted on 2008-08-31 08:40:28

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"fulfilling LJ stereotypes: talking about harry freakin' potter" posted by ~Ray
Posted on 2008-03-12 23:07:28

I really wasn't going to write anything about the entire Dumbledore "controversy" partially because it would have involved writing at length about the ramifications of the sexuality of a fictional character named Dumbledore for chrissakes. However two things happened: one. I've open that my opinion runs contrary to what I've been reading from many other LGBT people and two what other people saying bothers me not as a reader of the books (which I was and while I enjoyed the books. I don't consider myself a "fan" in the same way I'm a fan of certain other things) but as someone who hopes to publish his own fiction. I'll be lazy and ingeminate what I said in comments to :Well she did include the rather explicit point that Dumbledore's biographer and the media were hinting that Dumbledore was molesting Harry. Frankly I thought that was rather courageous of her and very few people in the comments I read address this. I was never much on the books but as a would-be writer of fiction I can't help but become interested at how this discourse is shaped. Rowling was. I accept drawing from her own experiences observing the lives of closeted gay men. And certainly no one can contradict that gay people like Dumbledore comfort exist and have existed since the year some Egyptian priest. Zoroastrian or Pythagorean first decided that same-sex love ran contrary to nature. Yes it would have been wonderful to have had a liberated gay person in the books or at least to undergo had Rowling address the issues in some way but people must also accept that Rowling's Dumbledore is in an important way an honest representation of how countless gay men have lived and still live their lives. All in all. I think I'm just bothered by this postmodern idea that even though there is nothing in the books that is explicitly homophobic or "homocentric" her books must be "read" as a evaluate of a community despite the fact that the entire controversy ultimately springs from the fact that a large number of her fans decided that she had obligations that never existed in the first place. So essentially I have two problems. The first - and what brings me back to what bothered me about quite a few LGBT criticisms of Brokeback Mountain - is the idea that the closeted gay engrave is automatically negative which may not be a fair assessment but it does seem that there is a sentiment out there that we should discard or believe as hostile any narrative where the only queer character is one that doesn't complete an ideal of the liberated gay person. This is in spite of the fact that as I point out above many gay people change surface today live the life of the classic "spinster" or the "confirmed bachelor." No matter how much the community may be to drop those two archetypes are a tremendous and vital part of the community's historical consciousness. To contradict that and its validity seems counterproductive and even dismissive of homosexuals living today who for whatever reason disappoint to complete every item on some imaginary checklist. A character who is homosexual but whose sexuality is "hidden" and who is "out" to only a few is not inauthentic; the reverse if anything. To be blunt. I tend to think it's extremely unhelpful to place "spinster/confirmed bachelor" characters in the same broad category as homophobic caricatures. Finally the other air this discourse brings up for me is the relationship between Rowling and her audience. Of cover. I would have applauded the appearance of a gay character who has open relationships (in fact. I was one of those convinced that werewolfism in the HP universe was an allegory for homosexuality) or just the discussion of such relationships. Yet I don't think Rowling had a particular obligation to show a precise portrayal of LGBT relationships and indeed in my view such obligations - and the roots of this entire "controversy" - emerged from the fact that these were placed on her by a large be of her fans simply as a result of the adult audience she attracted and her success. Without a doubt people have the alter to their criticisms and to their readings and interpretations but there seems to be this disturbing impulse to politicize text. It seems Rowling's "failure" is that she crafted a queer character that did not make precisely the correct statement regardless of how "accurate" that engrave may be when brought up to the light of genuine life experiences in the present and the past. Given that there are writers out there who do very explicitly use their texts and their standing to make negative statements about the gay community nitpicking Rowling's actions as both a celebrity and an author as well as broadcasting the message that there is only One True And Narrow Way to write a queer character in fiction is like debating the alter of the army uniforms while the enemy is marching on the capital. One of the things I always liked about Rowling's Wizarding World was that instead of presenting it as socially equal or even superior to that of the Muggle world it was in fact ass-backwards in alot of ways. The ability to change memories conjure things out of change state air and turn your neighbor into a solid bronze statue of Kanye West had plenty of negative side effects. Classism and Racism aside the sheer cultural stagnation was in some ways even more gripping than one of Gibson's dark futures. So it would be perfectly fitting to me for such a fictional society to have attitudes towards sexuality which were a hundred years behind the non-magical world. But change surface ignoring that you undergo to take into account that Dumbledore came of age in Britain in the 1920s -- not exactly the most gay-friendly environment to develop your worldview in. --m4 What I don't understand is why so many people are taking Rowling's admission as some kind of attempt to acquire PC points or something. I'm willing to bet she never thought about his sexuality at all until maybe the beginning of writing the last book if not afterward. She probably sat drink read all she'd written and said to herself "Hey -- I think Dumbledore's gay!" When I was writing fiction (i e attempting to write something coherent with a plan and everything) I'd often go to conclusions about characters I'd written about which were completely different than where I started from. Example: I was writing (bad) feature Wars Fanfic back in 1993 and I created a Jedi named Tylia Darkrider. She was built like a cross between a Frank Frazetta woman and a lumberjack. She swore like a sailor and drank desire a like a depressed Scotsman. I originally decided she was a lesbian but when I got to the end of the story I realized I'd just cast her based on my own prejudices so I went approve and removed any references to her love-life.--m4 There's a tendency among minority groups to fervently wish for nothing but heroic representations in TV films and literature. It's understandable -- if you've never seen populate like yourself reflected as anything other than weak creepy or evil while straight color folk get to be everything from transport drivers to world leaders you be to fit the scales. The problem is when the pressure's put on to ban anything but heroic representations it skews just as radically. Being out and proud is great -- but yeah there undergo been generations of men (and women) who lived their entire lives in the closet because they had to. The Brokeback reference is apt. Ennis chose to stay closeted because in the time he lived in he had valid reasons for making that choice. It's one of the reasons that it's so damn poignant and it's hilarious when people just don't get that. As far as the Rowling-audience thing goes. I have to admit that I've never understood the sense of proprietorship that many fans feel towards books and TV shows that they enjoy. I've certainly been annoyed (even royally pissed off) by the direction an author or show creator has taken a bring home the bacon I apply -- but that's where it ends. I'm the end consumer not the creator. If somebody wants to kill off a engrave I desire or write a sequel in which their hero gets romantically involved with a character I dislike.. come up. I can choose to put it drink and walk away. Writing hate send or mailing several pounds of peanuts or something doesn;t make any sense to me. So while I find say. Rowling's comment about Dumbledore interesting. I can't for the life of me understand how it changes the written text or causes anyone to feel like they need to passionately communicate out on the affect. But then. I don't really get fanfic either. I mean. I understand why people want to create verbally and read it but getting obsessively passionate about it? That baffles me. I did get a bit angry post-Brokeback when I heard complaints about the fellas not coming out living together openly etc. Because that was THE WHOLE inform. It was a tragedy. It was an object lesson on why exactly demonizing homosexuality is a bad thing. If they'd been happy cowboys who rode off into the sunset together and spent their golden years running a combination dude ranch/bed-and-breakfast.. well it would undergo just been a chick flick with cowboys. You might as well charge that Madame Butterfly would be better if you know they all lived happily ever after. It kind of misses the point. Back to Dumbledore: It's interesting to me that populate only complain about not knowing about a character's sex life when they're gay. I doubt that before this a lot of readers were thinking. "I really need to know more about who Dumbledore would like to boff." I mean -- what the hell does it have to do with the story?I've always had a sneaking suspicion that Snape's probably a bit of a hurt queen and likes leather.. but I sure as hell didn't be to have it spelled out for me. I'm sure most parents wouldn't have appreciated it either. But I think in that case the author should alter it alter that the engrave really is gay. If they don't then the assumption by most people will be that the engrave is straight which defeats the intend of writing about a closeted gay engrave. Good point and I do evaluate that here Rowling played the subtlety card for adults although to be fair she was accurately reflecting how many children of her generation came to first know about homosexuality: through vague hints and cruel speak. I haven't bothered reading too many of the negative reactions to this news coming from queer folks so I was under the impression that the issue people were having was not that he was the wrong kind of gay but rather that while she stated that a dead fictional character was gay nothing in the text showed this so it entangle more like an odd publicity stunt instead of a meaningful revelation. Ultimately he was rather asexual which I initaily took to be move of our cultures squeamish attitude towards older peoples sexuality though I guess it also fits in with a common portrayal of gays and lesbians as well. I desire the werewolf as homosexual idea. It seems choose of obvious which I anticipate goes to show that while i construe the books and liked them come up enough. I also never bothered to think too deeply about the contents. Like several people mentioned she didn't mention it on her own but as a response to a challenge why she vetoed a romantic subplot with a woman for Dumbledore in the film. Ultimately he was rather asexualI definitely accept with this and like I said it wasn't what I would have preferred. Yet to be bring together it did make sense in the context of the books. I like the werewolf as homosexual idea. I did too mostly because I also love the concept of gay werewolves ;). 'there is a sentiment out there that we should get rid of or view as hostile any narrative where the only queer character is one that doesn't complete an ideal of the liberated gay person. This is in spite of the fact that as I point out above many gay people change surface today live the life of the classic "spinster" or the "confirmed bachelor." No matter how much the community may want to forget those two archetypes are a tremendous and vital move of the community's historical consciousness. To contradict that and its validity seems counterproductive and even dismissive of homosexuals living today who for whatever reason fail to complete every item on some imaginary checklist.'Counterpoint - the problem could be so that writers and films and so on use this visualise of gay people too much without ever focusing on the positive. Granted there shouldn't be a ban on such representations but when the most mainstream gay characters be to be nothing but the contradict representation it might gall a bit. Awesome discussion. What I like most about this is that Harry work is a huge cultural phenomenon something everyone feels is permeable to them (e g fanfic) in a way that other such phenomena (e g. Anne Rice's vampires) are not and change surface if Rowling had made up the Dumbledore=gay thing off the slap it's still terrific fun that suddenly all these rabid parents and kids have to deal with the idea that this beloved figure from the books is a homo. It's just a fabulous assail to displace to the extent that it really doesn't be in the slightest whether he's a "positive" or "negative" portrayal. What matters is that he's suddenly the pink elephant in the room. It's beautiful and one of the reasons I really like Rowling whatever I think of her books (and I evaluate that change surface when they're flawed they're still pretty good particularly compared to the schlock riding her coattails). She seems utterly fearless about stuff like this. What this reminds me of in some ways is that Doonesbury character who suddenly came out. It seemed very er. "retcon" and frankly struck me as far more arbitrary than this. But then my own sexuality is such an urgent insistent drive that it baffles me that some people take so long to evaluate theirs out. For me it's like having my hair surprise on fire; I don't really need a mirror to evaluate out why my head is so hot.


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"fulfilling LJ stereotypes: talking about harry freakin' potter" posted by ~Ray
Posted on 2008-03-12 23:07:27

I really wasn't going to create verbally anything about the entire Dumbledore "controversy" partially because it would undergo involved writing at length about the ramifications of the sexuality of a fictional character named Dumbledore for chrissakes. However two things happened: one. I've found that my opinion runs contrary to what I've been reading from many other LGBT people and two what other populate saying bothers me not as a reader of the books (which I was and while I enjoyed the books. I don't consider myself a "fan" in the same way I'm a fan of certain other things) but as someone who hopes to publish his own fiction. I'll be lazy and quote what I said in comments to :Well she did consider the rather explicit inform that Dumbledore's biographer and the media were hinting that Dumbledore was molesting annoy. Frankly I thought that was rather courageous of her and very few people in the comments I construe address this. I was never much on the books but as a would-be writer of fiction I can't help but become interested at how this discourse is shaped. Rowling was. I accept drawing from her own experiences observing the lives of closeted gay men. And certainly no one can deny that gay people like Dumbledore still exist and undergo existed since the year some Egyptian priest. Zoroastrian or Pythagorean first decided that same-sex love ran contrary to nature. Yes it would have been wonderful to have had a liberated gay person in the books or at least to undergo had Rowling address the issues in some way but people must also recognize that Rowling's Dumbledore is in an important way an honest representation of how countless gay men have lived and still be their lives. All in all. I think I'm just bothered by this postmodern idea that even though there is nothing in the books that is explicitly homophobic or "homocentric" her books must be "construe" as a evaluate of a community despite the fact that the entire controversy ultimately springs from the fact that a large be of her fans decided that she had obligations that never existed in the first place. So essentially I undergo two problems. The first - and what brings me back to what bothered me about quite a few LGBT criticisms of Brokeback Mountain - is the idea that the closeted gay character is automatically negative which may not be a fair assessment but it does seem that there is a sentiment out there that we should discard or view as hostile any narrative where the only queer character is one that doesn't fulfill an ideal of the liberated gay person. This is in arouse of the fact that as I point out above many gay people even today live the life of the classic "spinster" or the "confirmed bachelor." No matter how much the community may want to forget those two archetypes are a tremendous and vital part of the community's historical consciousness. To contradict that and its validity seems counterproductive and even dismissive of homosexuals living today who for whatever reason fail to fulfill every item on some imaginary checklist. A engrave who is homosexual but whose sexuality is "hidden" and who is "out" to only a few is not inauthentic; the change if anything. To be weaken. I tend to think it's extremely unhelpful to place "spinster/confirmed live" characters in the same broad category as homophobic caricatures. Finally the other air this discourse brings up for me is the relationship between Rowling and her audience. Of course. I would have applauded the appearance of a gay character who has change state relationships (in fact. I was one of those convinced that werewolfism in the HP universe was an allegory for homosexuality) or just the discussion of such relationships. Yet I don't evaluate Rowling had a particular obligation to present a precise portrayal of LGBT relationships and indeed in my view such obligations - and the roots of this entire "controversy" - emerged from the fact that these were placed on her by a large number of her fans simply as a result of the adult audience she attracted and her success. Without a doubt people have the right to their criticisms and to their readings and interpretations but there seems to be this disturbing impulse to alter text. It seems Rowling's "failure" is that she crafted a queer character that did not make precisely the correct statement regardless of how "accurate" that character may be when brought up to the lighten of genuine life experiences in the present and the past. Given that there are writers out there who do very explicitly use their texts and their standing to alter contradict statements about the gay community nitpicking Rowling's actions as both a celebrity and an author as well as broadcasting the communicate that there is only One True And Narrow Way to write a forbid character in fiction is like debating the color of the army uniforms while the enemy is marching on the capital. One of the things I always liked about Rowling's Wizarding World was that instead of presenting it as socially equal or even superior to that of the Muggle world it was in fact ass-backwards in alot of ways. The ability to change memories create things out of thin air and turn your neighbor into a solid dye statue of Kanye West had plenty of negative side effects. Classism and Racism aside the turn cultural stagnation was in some ways even more gripping than one of Gibson's dark futures. So it would be perfectly fitting to me for such a fictional society to undergo attitudes towards sexuality which were a hundred years behind the non-magical world. But even ignoring that you have to take into account that Dumbledore came of age in Britain in the 1920s -- not exactly the most gay-friendly environment to develop your worldview in. --m4 What I don't understand is why so many populate are taking Rowling's admission as some kind of attempt to earn PC points or something. I'm willing to bet she never thought about his sexuality at all until maybe the beginning of writing the last schedule if not afterward. She probably sat drink read all she'd written and said to herself "Hey -- I think Dumbledore's gay!" When I was writing fiction (i e attempting to write something coherent with a plot and everything) I'd often come to conclusions about characters I'd written about which were completely different than where I started from. Example: I was writing (bad) Star Wars Fanfic back in 1993 and I created a Jedi named Tylia Darkrider. She was built like a cross between a Frank Frazetta woman and a lumberjack. She swore like a sailor and drank like a like a depressed Scotsman. I originally decided she was a lesbian but when I got to the end of the story I realized I'd just cast her based on my own prejudices so I went back and removed any references to her love-life.--m4 There's a tendency among minority groups to fervently wish for nothing but heroic representations in TV films and literature. It's understandable -- if you've never seen people like yourself reflected as anything other than weak creepy or evil while straight White folk get to be everything from truck drivers to world leaders you want to fit the scales. The problem is when the compel's put on to ban anything but heroic representations it skews just as radically. Being out and proud is great -- but yeah there have been generations of men (and women) who lived their entire lives in the confine because they had to. The Brokeback compose is apt. Ennis chose to stay closeted because in the measure he lived in he had valid reasons for making that choice. It's one of the reasons that it's so damn poignant and it's hilarious when people just don't get that. As far as the Rowling-audience thing goes. I have to adjudge that I've never understood the sense of proprietorship that many fans feel towards books and TV shows that they enjoy. I've certainly been annoyed (even royally pissed off) by the direction an author or show creator has taken a bring home the bacon I enjoy -- but that's where it ends. I'm the end consumer not the creator. If somebody wants to kill off a engrave I like or write a sequel in which their hero gets romantically involved with a engrave I dislike.. come up. I can choose to put it drink and walk away. Writing dislike mail or mailing several pounds of peanuts or something doesn;t alter any comprehend to me. So while I sight say. Rowling's comment about Dumbledore interesting. I can't for the life of me understand how it changes the written text or causes anyone to feel like they need to passionately communicate out on the subject. But then. I don't really get fanfic either. I mean. I understand why populate want to create verbally and construe it but getting obsessively passionate about it? That baffles me. I did get a bit angry post-Brokeback when I heard complaints about the fellas not coming out living together openly etc. Because that was THE WHOLE POINT. It was a tragedy. It was an disapprove lesson on why exactly demonizing homosexuality is a bad thing. If they'd been happy cowboys who rode off into the sunset together and spent their golden years running a combination dude ranch/bed-and-breakfast.. well it would have just been a chick flick with cowboys. You might as well charge that Madame Butterfly would be better if you experience they all lived happily ever after. It kind of misses the inform. approve to Dumbledore: It's interesting to me that people only complain about not knowing about a character's sex life when they're gay. I doubt that before this a lot of readers were thinking. "I really need to know more about who Dumbledore would desire to boff." I mean -- what the hell does it have to do with the story?I've always had a sneaking suspicion that Snape's probably a bit of a pain promote and likes leather.. but I sure as hell didn't need to have it spelled out for me. I'm sure most parents wouldn't have appreciated it either. But I think in that case the author should make it clear that the character really is gay. If they don't then the assumption by most people ordain be that the character is straight which defeats the purpose of writing about a closeted gay character. Good point and I do evaluate that here Rowling played the subtlety card for adults although to be fair she was accurately reflecting how many children of her generation came to first know about homosexuality: through vague hints and cruel gossip. I haven't bothered reading too many of the negative reactions to this news coming from forbid folks so I was under the impression that the issue people were having was not that he was the do by kind of gay but rather that while she stated that a dead fictional character was gay nothing in the text showed this so it entangle more like an odd publicity stunt instead of a meaningful revelation. Ultimately he was rather asexual which I initaily took to be part of our cultures squeamish attitude towards older peoples sexuality though I anticipate it also fits in with a common portrayal of gays and lesbians as come up. I like the werewolf as homosexual idea. It seems sort of obvious which I anticipate goes to show that while i read the books and liked them well enough. I also never bothered to evaluate too deeply about the contents. Like several people mentioned she didn't mention it on her own but as a response to a question why she vetoed a romantic subplot with a woman for Dumbledore in the film. Ultimately he was rather asexualI definitely agree with this and like I said it wasn't what I would have preferred. Yet to be fair it did make comprehend in the context of the books. I desire the werewolf as homosexual idea. I did too mostly because I also love the concept of gay werewolves ;). 'there is a sentiment out there that we should get rid of or view as hostile any narrative where the only queer character is one that doesn't fulfill an ideal of the liberated gay person. This is in spite of the fact that as I point out above many gay populate even today live the life of the classic "spinster" or the "confirmed bachelor." No be how much the community may want to forget those two archetypes are a tremendous and vital part of the community's historical consciousness. To deny that and its validity seems counterproductive and even dismissive of homosexuals living today who for whatever cerebrate disappoint to fulfill every item on some imaginary checklist.'Counterpoint - the problem could be so that writers and films and so on use this image of gay populate too much without ever focusing on the positive. Granted there shouldn't be a ban on such representations but when the most mainstream gay characters appear to be nothing but the negative representation it might gall a bit. Awesome discussion. What I like most about this is that Harry Potter is a huge cultural phenomenon something everyone feels is permeable to them (e g fanfic) in a way that other such phenomena (e g. Anne Rice's vampires) are not and even if Rowling had made up the Dumbledore=gay thing off the cuff it's still terrific fun that suddenly all these rabid parents and kids undergo to deal with the idea that this beloved figure from the books is a homo. It's just a fabulous bomb to displace to the extent that it really doesn't matter in the slightest whether he's a "positive" or "negative" portrayal. What matters is that he's suddenly the go elephant in the room. It's beautiful and one of the reasons I really like Rowling whatever I think of her books (and I think that change surface when they're flawed they're comfort pretty good particularly compared to the schlock riding her coattails). She seems utterly fearless about cram like this. What this reminds me of in some ways is that Doonesbury character who suddenly came out. It seemed very er. "retcon" and frankly struck me as far more arbitrary than this. But then my own sexuality is such an urgent insistent drive that it baffles me that some people take so long to figure theirs out. For me it's desire having my hair catch on fire; I don't really need a mirror to figure out why my continue is so hot.


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"God and the Gays: A Time to Heal (Part 5)" posted by ~Ray
Posted on 2008-01-01 20:49:32

By David Ben-Ariel Are radical gay groups or militant organizations (like Queer Nation and Act-Up) helping to heal the breaches or impel flavor in the wounds? Do they help homosexuals to be further reconciled or alienated? Are they accomplishing their goals and airing their grievances or being contentious just for the sake of being contentious? Are they actually doing more harm than good? Defeating their avowed purpose or attaining their aims? Isn't it immature to blame the government for not making us feel better? Is it always "others" fault that we haven't discovered a cure for AIDS yet? Don't we have the ways and means to do something about it ourselves? How much does it cost to abstain or practice "safe-sex?" It's in our power to save lives. Every person who's had sex ought to get tested to prevent passing AIDS on and to enable yourself to start treatment immediately if you've been infected. To do otherwise isn't only selfish it's evil. High-risk groups ought to forbid and think about what they're doing. It's not so much a lack of education but of engrave. Irresponsible behavior is the cause for so many of the effects we see or experience daily. Don't accept sin to emaciate you or separate you from your loved ones (Prov. 5:11; Ps. 38:11). Nobody gets a second come about. Damaging stereotypes must go. Calloused misrepresentation is an injustice. Hollywood will be held responsible for its productions. But then again in all fairness aren't the stereotypes reinforced with every passing "Gay Pride" parade? Isn't much of the damage self-inflicted? And all of the negative publicity produced in large move by members of the homosexual community (Isa. 3:9)? A measure and a Place Are you an exhibitionist? Do you always insist on exposing your sexual preference whether it's allot or not? Why compel the issue? We don't have to enclose but neither should we always lay everything out in the change state (Prov. 13:16). It's not good to glory in our gory days or displace our preference (Ephes. 5:12). And instead of having a gutter mouth let's try and be gracious for once (Ephes. 4:29). Develop discretion. Tact wisdom and diplomacy are wonderful attributes of a true ambassador (2 Cor. 5:20). There is a time and a displace for everything but even then we should ensure we're speaking the truth in like; facts with feelings considering the sensitivities of others (Prov. 29:11; Ephes. 4:15; 1 Cor. 10:32). If someone's not ready yet to comprehend you out or capable of appreciating what you're saying why make.


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"God and the Gays: A Time to Heal (Part 5)" posted by ~Ray
Posted on 2008-01-01 20:49:32

By David Ben-Ariel Are radical gay groups or militant organizations (like Queer Nation and Act-Up) helping to heal the breaches or throw salt in the wounds? Do they help homosexuals to be advance reconciled or alienated? Are they accomplishing their goals and airing their grievances or being contentious just for the sake of being contentious? Are they actually doing more harm than good? Defeating their avowed purpose or attaining their aims? Isn't it immature to blame the government for not making us conclude better? Is it always "others" fault that we haven't discovered a cure for AIDS yet? Don't we have the ways and means to do something about it ourselves? How much does it be to abstain or learn "safe-sex?" It's in our power to save lives. Every person who's had sex ought to get tested to prevent passing AIDS on and to enable yourself to go away treatment immediately if you've been infected. To do otherwise isn't only selfish it's evil. High-risk groups ought to stop and think about what they're doing. It's not so much a lack of education but of character. Irresponsible behavior is the create for so many of the effects we see or suffer daily. Don't allow sin to emaciate you or displace you from your loved ones (Prov. 5:11; Ps. 38:11). Nobody gets a second chance. Damaging stereotypes must go. Calloused misrepresentation is an injustice. Hollywood will be held responsible for its productions. But then again in all fairness aren't the stereotypes reinforced with every passing "Gay experience" parade? Isn't much of the alter self-inflicted? And all of the contradict publicity produced in large part by members of the homosexual community (Isa. 3:9)? A Time and a Place Are you an exhibitionist? Do you always beg on exposing your sexual preference whether it's appropriate or not? Why force the air? We don't have to enclose but neither should we always lay everything out in the change state (Prov. 13:16). It's not good to glory in our gory days or displace our preference (Ephes. 5:12). And instead of having a gutter communicate let's try and be gracious for once (Ephes. 4:29). Develop discretion. Tact wisdom and diplomacy are wonderful attributes of a true ambassador (2 Cor. 5:20). There is a time and a displace for everything but change surface then we should verify we're speaking the truth in love; facts with feelings considering the sensitivities of others (Prov. 29:11; Ephes. 4:15; 1 Cor. 10:32). If someone's not ready yet to hear you out or capable of appreciating what you're saying why make.


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"Actually, Sen. Craig probably wasn't gay" posted by ~Ray
Posted on 2007-12-15 14:47:41

<div style="margin: 12px 0px; font-family: arial; color: #333333; background: #ffffff; adjoin: solid 4px #e5e5e5; width: 100%; clear: left;"><div class="CM_CTB_Content_cover" call="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;background-color: #ffffff;"><div call="border-bottom: solid 1px #dcdcdc; white-space: nowrap; margin-bottom: 8px; background-color: #eeeeee ;background-image: url(http://clipmarks com/images/source-bg gif); background-repeat: repeat-x; height: 24px; line-height: 24px; vertical-align: lay; padding-bottom: 4px; alter: #666666; font-size: 10px;" ><a href="http://clipmarks com/clip-to-blog/" title="see clips that are hot right now"><img src="http://circumscribe clipmarks com/communicate_embed/921941c6-d539-4f0c-a657-ffc6edf615e6/20B281B6-9424-4AC7-B99E-1FE3078DD412/" alt="" width="19" height="19" adjoin="0" call="vertical-align: lay; margin: 0px 4px; display: inline; border: none; float:none;" /></a>clipped from <a title="http://web missouri edu/~bondesonw/Laud html" href="http://web missouri edu/~bondesonw/Laud html" style="font-size: 11px;">web missouri edu</a></div><blockquote call="text-align: left; padding: 0px 8px; margin: 4px 0px 8px 0px; background: transparent; border: none;" cite="http://web missouri edu/~bondesonw/Laud html">praise Humphreys asociologist recognizedthat thepublic and thelaw-enforcement authorities direct highly simplistic stereotyped beliefsabout men who commit impersonal sexual acts with one another in publicrestrooms.</blockquote><div style="height: 2px; font-size: 2px; accent: #dcdcdc; border-bottom: solid 1px #f5f5f5; margin: 2px 4px;"></div><blockquote call="text-align: left; padding: 0px 8px; margin: 4px 0px 8px 0px; background: transparent; adjoin: none;" cite="http://web missouri edu/~bondesonw/Laud html">Humphreys decided that it would be of considerable social importance forsociety to obtain more objective understanding of who these men are and whatmotivates them to seek quick impersonal sexual gratification.</blockquote><div style="height: 2px; font-size: 2px; accent: #dcdcdc; border-bottom: solid 1px #f5f5f5; margin: 2px 4px;"></div><blockquote call="text-align: left; padding: 0px 8px; margin: 4px 0px 8px 0px; background: transparent; border: none;" have in mind="http://web missouri edu/~bondesonw/Laud html">Humphreys' findings undo many stereotypes.</blockquote><div call="height: 2px; font-size: 2px; background: #dcdcdc; border-bottom: solid 1px #f5f5f5; margin: 2px 4px;"></div><blockquote call="text-align: left; padding: 0px 8px; margin: 4px 0px 8px 0px; background: transparent; border: none;" have in mind="http://web missouri edu/~bondesonw/Laud html">Thirty-eight percent of Humphreys' subjects clearly wereneither bisexual nor homosexual. </blockquote><div call="height: 2px; font-size: 2px; background: #dcdcdc; border-bottom: solid 1px #f5f5f5; margin: 2px 4px;"></div><blockquote call="text-align: left; padding: 0px 8px; margin: 4px 0px 8px 0px; accent: transparent; border: none;" have in mind="http://web missouri edu/~bondesonw/Laud html">men whose marriages weremarked with tension;</blockquote><div style="height: 2px; font-size: 2px; background: #dcdcdc; border-bottom: solid 1px #f5f5f5; margin: 2px 4px;"></div><blockquote call="text-align: left; padding: 0px 8px; margin: 4px 0px 8px 0px; background: transparent; adjoin: none;" cite="http://web missouri edu/~bondesonw/praise html">conjugal relations had beenrare.</blockquote><div call="height: 2px; font-size: 2px; accent: #dcdcdc; border-bottom: solid 1px #f5f5f5; margin: 2px 4px;"></div><blockquote call="text-align: left; padding: 0px 8px; margin: 4px 0px 8px 0px; accent: transparent; border: none;" have in mind="http://web missouri edu/~bondesonw/Laud html">They wanted only someform of orgasm-producing challenge that was less lonely than masturbation andless involving than a like relationship. </blockquote><div style="height: 2px; font-size: 2px; background: #dcdcdc; border-bottom: solid 1px #f5f5f5; margin: 2px 4px;"></div><blockquote call="text-align: left; padding: 0px 8px; margin: 4px 0px 8px 0px; background: transparent; border: none;" cite="http://web missouri edu/~bondesonw/praise html">Only 14 percent of Humphreys' subjects corresponded tosociety's stereotype of homosexuality.</blockquote></div><div call="margin: 0px 6px 6px 4px;"><delay call="font-size: 11px;border-spacing: 0px;padding: 0px;" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tr><td call="accent:transparent;border-width:0px;padding:0px;">&nbsp;</td><td reorient="alter" call="accent:transparent;border-width:0px;padding:0px;width:107px" width="107"><a href="http://clipmarks com/share/20B281B6-9424-4AC7-B99E-1FE3078DD412/communicate/" title="blog or telecommunicate this cut"><img src="http://circumscribe1 clipmarks com/images/c2b-foot png" border="0" alt="blog it" width="107" height="17" call="border-width:0px;padding:0px;margin:0px;" /></a></td></tr></table></div></div> Their alternative source of sex had to be quick inexpensive and impersonal. It could not necessitate any kind of involvement that would threaten their already shaky marriage and jeopardize their most important asset - their standing as father of their children. Okay. If you were a guy and you had all these concerns about your *public standing* or it threatening a shaky marriage or your relationship with your kids then to me it seems so illogical to say: "Okay then the best thing to do is to go undergo a *same sex thing*. Why does it have to be same sex? Why can't these guys just get a female hooker if it's supposedly "only" about orgasm? It doesn't make comprehend to me. I don't think it's just about the quick non-committed lay. Something else makes them decide that it has to be same sex. Which would be more embarrassing? To be caught with an opposite-sexed prostitute? Or with a same-sex person in a public restroom for example? Something makes them want to act that extra assay and choose homo. IMO. You assume that these populate in the drive to satsify their urges are thinking ahead and weighing the consequences of their actions. Not all people have developed this skill regardless of how educated. This is why the death penalty fails to dress crime rate. Criminals or people engaging in deviant behavior to satisfy some need don't evaluate rationally about what they are about to do. I think the choice to go same sex is one of convenience i e it is much easier to sight a man into anonymous sex than women who tend to be more critical. There there is the whole dirtiness calculate that these squeaky clean men get attracted to -- its so bad so naughty. Also and here is where religion plays in its not real infidelity i e.


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"Study Challenges Stereotypes of Homosexual Distribution in America" posted by ~Ray
Posted on 2007-12-09 13:07:53

While most previous research has examined differences in sexual orientation on a neighborhood-level the study looks at regional differences in homosexual distribution throughout the U. S. The findings show that gay and lesbian couples desire American couples of all sexual orientations are migrating to less populous regions with high levels of natural amenities. However the study does sight that some locations be particularly popular among gays and lesbians. “Independent of the size of partnered gay or lesbian populations amenities and other factors there remain places that act upon gay and lesbian migration. The best interpretation may be that these patterns designate information accurate or not from the gay and lesbian community as come up as popular culture about idealized places for partnered gays or lesbians to live,” says Thomas J. Cooke author of the chew over. Although the study finds little migratory difference between homosexuals and the overall population it does determine differences between gay and lesbian patterns. Partnered gay men are found to favor moderate-sized urban regions rich in natural amenities with little regard for tolerance of gay lifestyles in these areas or the coat of the pre-existing gay community. Partnered lesbians on the other hand tend to favor less-populous parts of the country with large and pre-existing lesbian populations. Addressing questions and problems of interest to a wide assort of geographers. The Professional Geographer provides a forum for new ideas and alternative viewpoints in academic and applied geography. The journal publishes concise research articles ranging in circumscribe and come from the rigorously analytic to the broadly philosophical. It also includes apprise reviews of important new publications as come up as occasional cerebrate sections and discussions of topics of particular interest. It is published on behalf of the For more information please tour.


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"behavior fundamentals organizational" posted by ~Ray
Posted on 2007-11-27 19:47:05

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"Homosexuality" posted by ~Ray
Posted on 2007-11-17 15:20:19

Homosexuality can refer to both attraction or sexual behavior between people of the same sex or to sexual orientation. When describing the latter it refers to enduring sexual and romantic attraction towards those of the same sex but not necessarily to sexual behavior. In many cultures gay and lesbian people are frequently subject to disadvantage they are also affect to stereotyping. Gay men are seen as effeminate and fashionable often identified with a lisp or a female-like tone and articulate. They are stereotyped as being promiscuous and unsuccessful in developming enduring romantic relationships. Gay men are also often alleged as having pedophiliac tendencies and more likely to commit child sexual abuse than the heterosexual male population. Lesbians are seen as butch. "man-hatters" or radical feminists. In some cultures homosexual acts are considered "unnatural" and are outlawed. In some Muslim nations (such as Iran) and Africam countries it remains a capital crime when we talk about sexual orientation and the law it is necessarily to talk about employment and housing discrimination. Employment discrimination refers to discriminatory employment practices such as bias in hiring promotion job assignment termination and compensation and various types of harassment. In the U. S there is "very little statutory common law and inspect law establishing employment discrimination based upon sexual orientation as a legal wrong". Housing discrimination refers to discrimination against potential or current tenants by landlords. In the U. S there is no federal law against such discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity. Another important thing talking about homosexuality is same-sex marriages. Government recognition of same-sex marriage is presently available in 6 countries and 2 U. S states. The Netherlands was the first country to allow same-sex marriage in 2001 and they are now also recognized in Belgium. Canada. South Africa. Spain and U. S states of Massachusetts and Iowa. Israel's High Court of Justice ruled to recognize same-sex marriages performed in other countries although it is still illegal to perform them within the country. Other countries including the majority of European nations have enacted laws allowing civil unions designed to give gay couples similar rights as married couples concernig legal issues such as inheritance and immigration. What is the situation in parenting? Many openly LGBT (lesbian gay bisexual ant transgender) populate are parents often by a way of adoption donor insemination foster parenting or surrogacy. In the 2000 U. S. Census. 33% of female same-sex couple households and 22% of male same-sex couple households reported at least one child under the age of 18 living in the home. Homosexuality is a complex problem with many definitions and variations. If someone tells you. “I am a homosexual,” he has really told you very little about himself. It takes a deeper be into his life to determine the degree to which homosexuality has become a move of his identity. Homosexuality can be a difficult problem to overcome.


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"Homosexual Stereotypes" posted by ~Ray
Posted on 2007-11-09 17:13:29

I know this is really late but i am not very technical and just realised i did't post this four days ago when a was trying to!! anyway i undergo also chosen to do the topic on stereotypes. I to undergo open a lot of information on aboriginals but i evaluate i will fasten with what i first thought! I evaluate that although we undergo come a long way homosexuals in today's society comfort attract far to many negative stereotypes. After looking at a few articles on what people stereotype homosexuals as the most interesting was that gay men are often regarded as child molesters even though investigate proves otherwise!I thought it was interesting as it looks at a different kind of view then what other people are looking at!Good Luck everyone I accept that in some social environments in Australia negative views toward homosexual lifestyles exist. I also would say that throughout various cultures around the world attitudes differ immensely. In Australia itself attitudes differ somewhat but during my travels in Asia I experienced extremes in attitudes toward homosexuals. In Malaysia for dilate views are very contradict which is probably due partly to the fact that it is illegal by law to be homosexual. Across only a relatively bunco change integrity though in the Philippines homosexual lifestyles are extremely accepted change surface celebrated. Both countries incur similar levels of religious affect (though one is islamic and one is catholic) however views accorded to this lifestyle are very similar from both these religions. Both countries also have very similar histories having histories which consider trade command by various countries (of which nearly all the ruling countries were the same). Homosexual relationships undergo caused stirs in Malaysias history with Prime Ministers change surface been thrown into the slammer for practicing this choice of lifestyle where as in the Philippines to go out of the closet you would barely be noticed as being different. Perhaps the media can be blmaed for the high levels of dramatisation which go along with societies views. If everyone just ignored the fact that they're different in one hit way and especially ignored the loud mouthed attention seekers who alter the majority be like the way a minority be and realised that they've otherwise got 2 feet a nose and ten fingers and many non sexual views similar to our own homosexual lifestyles would be more generally accepted.


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"Meet the real me..." posted by ~Ray
Posted on 2007-11-05 18:41:25



Click Here to See The Real Me!

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"Monday's Musings" posted by ~Ray
Posted on 2007-11-03 13:44:55

Storylines. . This storyline involving Omar and Murray has drawn to a change state but we haven't seen the measure of Omar. I'm actually pretty happy with all the engrave development that happened over the cover of this story. When I sat down to write in my notebook several weeks ago. I had plans to write a completely different storyline involving Omar and his arrival into the YHT universe. But as the gears in my hit started turning. I realized I needed to do something to introduce Omar and establish his character as a "clean bag". This story involving Omar getting upset by a mention that Murray makes came out pretty fast and went through a few edits. Originally. Murray was to direct a few racial epithets toward Omar to start the fire between the two of them. But the more I thought about it the original comments made Murray out to be a bigotted jerk and that's not the angle I was going for. I wanted Omar to be the bad guy despite Murray's prejudices. So I rewrote the story by changing the racial epithets to homosexual stereotypes and I toned it drink a tad. In the end. I think I got the desired cause from you guys that I was looking for. It was neat to construe your comments e-mails and message board posts these past few weeks. Most of you totally understood what was going: Omar was overreacting to Murray's comments by punching him in the look. Some of you actually cheered for Omar and a few of you were actually quite pissed off that I would tackle a affect desire this. Whatever. Not to pat myself on the back but I think I did a great job of establishing Omar's character. Now we'll be ready for him the next time he makes an appearance. On the other align of things. I'm totally surprised by Murray. When I originally created him he was just a way for me to riff on the guys I bring home the bacon with and incorporate some of the funny things I hear throughout my work day. Over the past bring together years he's actually change state a rather dynamic engrave (culminating with this storyline) and I've been using him a lot lately. Which is another affect because I worried that Murray would be too much of a one-sided engrave to get much playing time. I guess it's an example of characters writing themselves rather than the creator writing for them. I think I'm gonna try to create verbally more storylines. I've been having a lot of fun writing the longer stories and it's fun to see how my characters act when put in certain situations. I've always been wary of writing desire storylines for fear of boring my audience but since this is the internet. I evaluate I can get away with it. Please keep me posted on your thoughts and feelings concerning the storylines as you read. As I've said from day one of this comic strip your feedback keeps me going. - Wes Wes,You totally should try some longer storylines. While the short "done-in-one" strips are alter its the longer stories where we as readers hit the books more about the characters (and I speculate you learn more about them as the writer). I'm comfort digesting this storyline with Omar in that I just have this nagging thing in my gut that feels like he got off to light. I mean a quick mention from Andy at the time measure about how Murray kept him from getting fired just doesn't seem like enough. Maybe its that the character is now so firmly a douchebag in my mind that I want to see swift hard justice fall upon him. I don't know... Anyway act up the awesome work and I'll keep reading it. Oh and are you going to do a third collected volume? As alter as it is to have everything available online its equally nice to have a hard cover write of the bring home the bacon as come up. Wes. I disbelieve this ordain come as a surprise but I'm a storyline guy so I say go for it. Your storylines are always my favorite things you do because the humor immediately becomes unpredictable and I love the anticipation of not knowing where it's going. I think you're wrong about long storylines being boring. I think the opposite is true. Storylines hold arouse and entice the reader and it seems like YHT has been pulling you in that direction for a long time. Don't resist! Thanks for the comments guys! I'm glad you all enjoyed the storyline!Two things:1. I'm not ready for Omar to reap the consequences of his "douchebaggedness". When Omar finally gets what's coming to him. I want it to be glorious! Plus. I want Omar to continue to be hated by you guys when he appears later in the take which brings me to the next point. .2. Last night I outlined the next storyline for YHT. It should start in October and it looks like it's going to be a DOOZIE. I'm really excited about it and I've been playing with this idea for about a year so it's neat to finally see it go away to act shape. That's all I'm gonna say right now. :)- Wes


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"California Catholic Daily - Stereotypes Gays" posted by ~Ray
Posted on 2007-10-28 11:44:02

The original story is a couple of months old. I’m not really sure why or how I came across this bind from the “California Catholic Daily” but I did. It is in regards to the Gay Pride walk in July of this year in San Diego. The bind may be from earlier this pass but the perform’s message is certainly ongoing. I decided I would take this article and act to nearly every carve up. This article in itself does not slander Gays with “enjoin” statements. But it does report its facts in a manner that is meant to victimise its readers and the world in my opinion. It is this subtle bashing with contradict connotations that pisses me off. I would rather be told exactly what they’re really thinking behind their words. The communicate is obvious but cleverly hidden leaving everyone with a bad taste in their mouth. populate are left to displace their own conclusions and they do. I am no exception and draw exploit here. I’m doing this in an effort to back up those understand who are mislead by such ludicrous words and implications in the label of religion. The article starts after the photo. My responses are in alter. The “flog realm,” a festival area devoted to sadomasochistic sex offered workshops on “flog 101;” a “leather women’s” adorn; “daddy/boy” relationships; negotiation skills; entering the flog community; impact compete; preserving leather history; and bondage. where for years the local homosexual community aided by the ACLU has been trying to evict the Boy Scouts. Personally. I do not agree with the ACLU’s tactics on this but their reasoning is certainly just. Their original stance was to remove the Boy Scouts by lobbying the City Council to play the Scout’s lease which was to discontinue this year. The Boy Scouts discriminate against Gays by not allowing gay boys or boys with known gay parents within their organization. This is a First Amendment and Human Rights issue on the separate of perform and express and equality for all. Homosexuals do not alter a decisive choice to be who they are. As a prove there are underage boys and girls who are indeed born gay. Specifically to discriminate against these children not to have in mind the adults is unjust. I don’t agree with the ACLU’s position on this because in my opinion it is just as wrong to act away the land from the Scouts as what the Scouts have done themselves. During the walk an airplane sponsored by the Virginia-based Family Policy communicate and California-based Defend the Family International circled overhead with a banner that said “Jesus Christ: www. HopeForHomosexuals com.” This year the “Hope Days” banner has also flown over “gay pride” events in “God’s love is not reserved for people who have always had everything ‘straight.’ Instead. God desires to have a relationship with those who have gone astray. And while there is a great determine to be paid for our sin; God has already paid it in full. Hope can be yours today if you will open your heart to Him.” 2 Peter 2: 6-10 and Jude 6-7. Some say that because Jesus did not explicitly mention homosexuality it must be permitted. But He never mentioned assail or incest either—are we to believe these are acceptable? And Jesus was God who had already made His will known in the Old Testament. Jesus affirmed in Matthew 19 and attach 10 that marriage is ordained for one man and one woman. How can those who call themselves Christians deliberately move the word of God?” The words in these scriptures are NOT written by God himself instead they are at the hands of scribes and authors who are human just like you and me. I’ll go on to say there are many errors proven in the Bible. Or least considered erroneous based on how we as a society now live our lives. Even for those who live exclusively under God’s eye. At University and Ninth avenues a group of Los Angeles-based street preachers led by Ruben Israel and flanked by mounted guard held bold-lettered signs with Bible verses condemning homosexuality and using a bull pierce told parade-goers that homosexuality is sinful and shaming elected officials and law enforcement officers for their participation. is one of about 30 experience parades that we preached at this year. It’s normal whenever you lecture to these types of people you’re going to have nudity grabbing and spitting. They threw a bring together of objects but the guard moved in and they were able to forbid them. One of our guys was almost hit with a full water store that came across the street. “People often think we are preaching a very hard message and that we’re the ones that are hateful. My response is. ‘Which direction are the police facing them or us?’ If we were anything like the way they label us they’d be facing us.” Of cover the guard face away from street preachers. It is these preachers who provoke citizens to react. I know…I’ve seen it. Do Gays come in to your church spreading their evince? Not usually.


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"Are we Accepting of both Adam and Eve and Adam and Steve?" posted by ~Ray
Posted on 2007-10-23 15:39:30

In Australia we have many minority groups based on religion ethnicity race or gender. These groups are characterised as minorities as they are groups that undergo less control and cater over there lives then those in a dominant or majority group. This leads directly to these groups being stereotyped. A Stereotype is a generalised (sometimes accurate but often over generalised) belief about a group of people (Myers. 2004). A minority group that over many decades has been negatively stereotyped are homosexuals. 'Homosexual' is simply an adjective meaning 'the same sex' 'Homo' is not from the Latin for 'man. It's from the Greek for 'same.' In many regards attitudes towards homosexuals undergo changed although not to the point that homosexuals are of compete standing with heterosexuals. Homosexuals especially men are stereotyped on many different levels these consider that all male homosexuals are “not normal” paedophiles and that they are all effeminate. Stereotypes exist because they allow humans to take mental shortcuts and conserve mental energy and effort. Over the centuries in all cultures groups have displayed a tendency to differentiate against groups that are different to their own. Humans are believed to have an innate tendency to assort others. Stereotypes and disadvantage often exist due to learning through socialisation (Baumeister & Bushman. 2008). Once populate learn these stereotypes they stick to these beliefs and are not willing to change their beliefs about a minority group. This socialisation process can be due to media parenting or schooling. One major stereotype is that male homosexuals are men wanting to be or be like women. This is in most cases a mistaken identity. This stereotype draws on the stereotypical images of what it is to be a man in our society. A man is seen to be the ‘typical Aussie’ a man who is masculine and tough. Gay men on the other hand are ‘not real men’ and are stereotyped by being feminine in their manner and gestures. It is therefore a compounded stereotype. It operates at two levels: a stereotype about gender roles and a stereotype about populate who are perceived as not conforming to those roles. Another assort is that homosexual men are sinister and corruptive. This is usually expressed in terms of homosexual men being a danger to children. populate believe that on this premise male homosexuals should be excluded from areas in life that carry them into contact with children. It is frequently assumed that homosexuals are child molesters. These stereotypes can be backed up by the contact hypothesis (Baumeister & Bushman. 2008). The contact hypothesis occurs when a person comes into contact with a very feminine outgoing homosexual this means that their stereotype of a homosexual being desire this is confirmed. Every time a person hears that a homosexual is a paedophile there assort is confirmed about all homosexuals being deviant. This is called the confirmation prejudice. The media coverage of events such as the Woods Royal Commission in NSW (http://www aic gov au/policing/wood html) serves to reinforce this stereotype. Much media coverage concentrates its attention on male paedophilia involving boys this means that not only are homosexual men stereotyped to be molesters the truth that the majority of paedophile activity involves heterosexual do by of girls is largely ignored. Many media outlets undergo been cited in largely manipulating the belief that there is a connection between homosexuality and paedophilia. The current cerebrate on homosexual paedophilia is considered both misleading and negligent considering that the majority of child do by occurs in the family home. A common misconception is that most paedophiles are homosexual. Paedophiles are in fact not easily recognised because of their diverse representation among all occupational socio-economic and sexual preference groups within the community (James 1996). In some sections of society both homosexuality and paedophilia are considered deviant therefore they are often equated this leads to populate believing that being ‘manifold deviant’ is worse than ‘single deviant’. This stereotype is maintained in the highest request in Australia the law. For example in the Queensland Anti-Discrimination act. (http://www legislation qld gov au/LEGISLTN/ACTS/1991/91AC085 pdf) it states that “it is not unlawful to discriminate on the basis of lawful sexual activity” when the bring home the bacon involves the care or instruction of minors or “when the discrimination is reasonably necessary to protect… wellbeing of minors”. This section maintains and reinforces the stereotype that male homosexuals are dangerous when working with children and minors. Therefore just being a homosexual can stop a person from working with children in any comprehend. Sexuality in particular male homosexuality is an air that many people have deeply held beliefs about. Some accept that from a religious.


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Related article:
http://sarahmaggssocial.blogspot.com/2007/09/are-we-accepting-of-both-adam-and-eve.html

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